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[laleia]

You know? I definitely don't know how this whole stereotype where Chinese people aren't gay because it would be a huge, terrible disgrace got started because I'm definitely reading the English translation of a classic Chinese novel (hong lou meng, for those who care) for class and umm ..

... not only is there more sex than I had realized ancient Chinese people in eighteenth-century China cared about but ...

... Chapter 9 totally has a gay orgy. Like, there's a potential foursome of guys who want to have sex with each other, and there are guys have sex with each other, and it's SO WEIRD because I didn't know that publishing this kind of stuff in ancient China was ALLOWED. And this is a classic? And ... the narrator acts like it's such a normal thing, this RAMPANT homosexuality among ancient Chinese aristocrats.

Comments

[invida.livejournal.com]

I haven't read this novel, so please bear with me. Literature does not always equate with what societal norms are, especially when you take one piece of literature and try to define an entire culture in a certain time period by it. Like Lady Chatterly's Lover. If we read it today without knowing any of the history behind that novel, we'd say, wow, they were allowed to get away with a lot of sexy talk back then and those upper class English ladies liked it pretty rough.

The other reason I'm commenting is that I am half Chinese and I can tell you that most of my family would not react well to anybody coming out regardless of the fact that we are in the 21st century and that most of us are in North America now. My uncle and his family, who live in Hong Kong, recently ostracised his brother-in-law for coming out and leading an openly gay lifestyle. So the stigma is there, just like I'm sure it is in many other cultures.

Anyway, I'm intrigued by this book now. Are you enjoying it? I'll try to find a copy and give it a go myself! Thanks for mentioning it!

[laleia.livejournal.com]

Well, see, that's the thing. I'm Chinese, too, and I know the general weird-ness that is associated with homosexuality, which is exactly why I found the book so surprising. I'm reading a translation (as I'm not good enough at Chinese to read it in the original), so that might be it, but it just completely took me by surprise, since it's the favorite book and T.V. show of my cousins/uncles/aunts/parents/relatives-of-all-shapes-and-sizes. And I suppose part of the reason I'm defining the time period by this novel is because that is the purpose of my class -- to define the time period by this specific novel as large numbers of historians/critics have tried to do whilst arguing whether this novel counts as an autobiography or actual fiction.

Anyways, the translation I'm reading for class if apparently the only really good translation out there, according to my teacher, and is actually known as "The Story of the Stone" (although it is also known as "The Dream of the Red Chamber") translated by David Hawkes, if you do decide to read it. I found the first two chapters slow going, but it got more and more interesting as I went on. Considering there are around 120 chapters (or was it 140?), I hope it continues getting interesting instead of going the other direction. I think it probably does get interesting, seeing as I've cousins who've read it 10 times, and you usually don't read something that long 10 times unless it's good.